tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post8562887614034468686..comments2024-03-21T03:15:06.288-04:00Comments on Cozy Beehive: Fishy Marketing : The Slippery Speedplay MannequinRon Georgehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18394865788996482667noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-70066927554131341442010-04-17T13:36:39.468-04:002010-04-17T13:36:39.468-04:00Uhhh...
Spindle diameter is governed by structura...Uhhh...<br /><br />Spindle diameter is governed by structural considerations. I don't have a set of speedplays on me but I'm fairly sure most road pedal spindles are basically the same diameter.<br /><br />Cd for a cylinder is inversely proportional to dia so you won't see huge drag reductions just considering the pedal alone.<br /><br />Even going to Ti, you just save weight, the member itself isn't going to get much thinner (stiffness considerations) - it's just less dense.<br /><br />I don't remember speedplay cleats having a smaller frontal area than LS style pedals + cleat thats for sure - while you might induce more drag due to turbulence because of the LS caging system at that point I'd really have to see the CFD with a crank arm and foot attached for the full pedal rotation as a function of the degree the rider toes down - most riders don't maintain flat feet and that has far more profound drag effects.<br /><br />Drag analysis is somewhat circumspect as well - this sort of Cd stuff measured to the second decimal pace only matters for pros who spend lots and lots of metered training time improving their aero positions (and who don't then blow seconds looking down during a TT) - things like riding in the hoods, or using water bottles and exposed shifter/brake cables blow anything on the order of 0.0X into the realm of irrelevant.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00403695097675640092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-38777524471807599532009-11-30T01:49:46.559-05:002009-11-30T01:49:46.559-05:00Its Anon again. Yes I am from a science background...Its Anon again. Yes I am from a science background, but not anything related to fluid engineering. Just being honest. <br /><br />I might not have made it clear in my post that the aero benefit primarily comes from the narrower, smooth spindle of the Stainless and Ti pedals. This is where I believe there's a real difference between Speedplay and other pedal systems which have a much wider axle, especially with a composite body pedal like a Look Keo. <br /><br />I agree that the pedaling leg is a bit of a marketing ploy, but I bet a wind tunnel would still reach the same fundamental conclusion with Foam Dave Zabriskie over 100 minutes of testing. <br /><br />My point is that the average consumer doesn't have the background in statistics to care that the testing doesn't necessarily prove that it saves exactly 33 seconds but might save between 15 and 45 seconds. I agree that they could do more testing and narrow it down, but I doubt anybody would care except bloggers and shop rats. <br /><br />I'm not too fond of using time units t express an aero advantage. If I had my way, all aero benefits would be expressed as watts saved at 40km/h.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-19494914239126733062009-11-29T10:55:40.718-05:002009-11-29T10:55:40.718-05:00Anon : Welcome to the blog. Look at the comment ab...Anon : Welcome to the blog. Look at the comment above you from another Anonymous at 10:55am. His question is pretty much valid too. How will you address that? And if surface area is king, everything on a bicycle should look like a thin stick. It isn't.<br /><br />And fluid flow is complex. There is interaction with systems, subsystems, body parts etc of a human on a bicycle. You cannot put a half sized mannuquin with just legs, prove it showed some aero drag change with Speedplays compared to other pedals and declare that a rider adopting such equipment will show the exact same results. This has not been proven nor has extensive tests been conducted. In my viewpoint, according to the blog post, both the statistics and the entire logic behind the conclusions are wrong. Neither have the calculations been shown on how someone comes out with a 33 second advantage. Its just lacking in essential and important details.<br /><br />Feel free to disagree with me. I take it you're not from an engineering or scientific background.Ron Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394865788996482667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-13688756202117819292009-11-29T06:30:26.260-05:002009-11-29T06:30:26.260-05:00I'm surprised that what is normally a quite ra...I'm surprised that what is normally a quite rational blog like Cozy Beehive would start bashing speedplay pedals. You dont need to test a pedal system to recognize that the frontal area of a speedplay pedal and cleat is smaller than the frontal area of a shimano, look or time pedal. It therefore has less drag. Converting an aero benefit into an approximate time savings is a common way to make the general public grasp the overall advantage of a particular product. Is your criticism that they didnt run the test for long enough to be statistically valid? Is there something fundamentally wrong with their protocol? Or is it just that they condensed the result into a soundbyte?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-51053079971819067812009-11-28T18:32:24.581-05:002009-11-28T18:32:24.581-05:00Speedplay's owner is a lawyer.
Well, well...Speedplay's owner is a lawyer.<br /><br />Well, well...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-5881477728078015002009-11-28T18:29:25.340-05:002009-11-28T18:29:25.340-05:00Fritz : Not yet, but like some commentators say it...Fritz : Not yet, but like some commentators say its been on their site for sometime and other bloggers have picked up on it before me. Certainly they should have heard it by now.Ron Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18394865788996482667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-91252106665360827632009-11-28T16:48:39.101-05:002009-11-28T16:48:39.101-05:00Good call on that, Ron.
Has Speedplay been given ...Good call on that, Ron.<br /><br />Has Speedplay been given an opportunity to respond? I'd be curious what they say.Yokota Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04808661100114872654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-6301661388033592992009-11-28T10:55:19.104-05:002009-11-28T10:55:19.104-05:00So, can someone tell me...
If I pedal slightly toe...So, can someone tell me...<br />If I pedal slightly toe down (which at 100rpms for me, at least, is guaranteed), effectively shielding the pedal from the wind...is the magical theoretical advantage of Speedplay negated? BTW, Richard Bryne (man shown) is the owner of Speedplay, but more interetingly, a lawyer. ...do what you want with that info...I'm certainly not implying that a lawyer could, or would manipulate data to reflect their (marketing)needs..."snick"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-75844279483225432282009-11-27T18:48:35.381-05:002009-11-27T18:48:35.381-05:00I second Craig Wallace first comment. The fact tha...I second Craig Wallace first comment. The fact that Speedplay has been ignorant about the critiques of these claims show that they're totally in a different world of their own. This is pretty shameful for a company to leave untouched and if anything, I expect them to atleast make a few decent changes to the writeup in the coming days.ROB VOSSLERnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-1969613244574819722009-11-27T18:48:11.692-05:002009-11-27T18:48:11.692-05:00I second Craig Wallace first comment. The fact tha...I second Craig Wallace first comment. The fact that Speedplay has been ignorant about the critiques of these claims show that they're totally in a different world of their own. This is pretty shameful for a company to leave untouched and if anything, I expect them to atleast make a few decent changes to the writeup in the coming days.ROB VOSSLERnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-4169645384021770322009-11-27T09:51:13.229-05:002009-11-27T09:51:13.229-05:00That was a brilliant photo at the end there. The m...That was a brilliant photo at the end there. The man standing next to the dismembered mannequin as if its the solution for all our ills. I don't quite think I'm ready to cut myself open to gain the so-called "33s time savings."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-46477134455973415292009-11-27T09:00:45.455-05:002009-11-27T09:00:45.455-05:00"And wind tunnel testing is not cheap you kno..."And wind tunnel testing is not cheap you know."<br /><br />@ bill : ...the dollar amt probably just get passed on to the customer in the end :( thank god i didn't fall for this. (and i love my keo's thank you.)Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16268869622833968439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-51955543345043400032009-11-27T08:47:30.495-05:002009-11-27T08:47:30.495-05:00They should have just modelled this on a computer ...They should have just modelled this on a computer and done a fluid flow analysis. This is stupid. And wind tunnel testing is not cheap you know.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-33672445105963315742009-11-27T07:52:35.138-05:002009-11-27T07:52:35.138-05:00Seems like they don't even know what they'...Seems like they don't even know what they're trying to prove? And is this system meant for a human or a mannequin? Muddled is not even the right word.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-39468146123870381362009-11-27T07:20:44.525-05:002009-11-27T07:20:44.525-05:00The mannequin developed is very impressive. I'...The mannequin developed is very impressive. I'm a Speedplay user for the past 4 years. While I did think I was using it for speed, I attributed it to lower weight on climbs.Willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13887692.post-77099986618070673852009-11-27T06:31:11.196-05:002009-11-27T06:31:11.196-05:00I take it that Speedplay had this up on their webs...I take it that Speedplay had this up on their website for a while. And you wonder why BSNYC didn't catch up on it.Craig Wallacehttp://www.blogger.com/profilenoreply@blogger.com